这是以后公寓买家要留意的一个东西,隐形窗花安装。按照这位读者的说法,这个物业公司的做法过分了,下次动议换公司。
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#51
看来我们MSCT 很讲道理呢我的小区很多人安装了,我还没拿到钥匙就约好了le gate, 一拿到钥匙就安装了。
安全第一我的小区很多人安装了,我还没拿到钥匙就约好了le gate, 一拿到钥匙就安装了。
安全第一 -
#52
关于律师信律师信并不可怕,不要被无良中介和律师骗了。
要知道你自己都可以写律师信的。
https://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articles/letters-of-demand-and-their-usages-in-singapore/律师信并不可怕,不要被无良中介和律师骗了。
要知道你自己都可以写律师信的。
https://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articles/letters-of-demand-and-their-usages-in-singapore/ -
DengWei 楼主#53
我看代楼主买的中介也没料到MCST这么难搞吧
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#54
为了追求最肤浅的外观统一却忽视房子作为居住场所最基本的要素,某些人的眼界和观念真是呵呵了。却忽视房子作为居住场所最基本的要素,某些人的眼界和观念真是呵呵了。
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#55
http://business.asiaone.com/news/grille-expectations-condos找到一篇相关的文章找到一篇相关的文章
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#56
太奇怪了,很多公寓都可以装窗花阳台安全护栏的,只不过要由MCST统一规格样式
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#57
你过来买,我们组队把他们给推翻啦
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#58
感觉MC就是想把楼主赶走否则这么做实在是没有道理。
否则这么做实在是没有道理。 -
#59
刚搬进来不过2个月而已。见到邻居也只是点头招呼而已
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#60
这是阳台上的。不是窗子上的
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#61
你太厉害了。这都还有印象。呵呵
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DengWei 楼主#62
这种情况只能找专业律师处理,不然就只能在客厅拉门到阳台的地方先装栅栏,保证安全
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#63
这…MCST的人能同时加入NC吗会不会有conflict?或者如果两边关系不好里外不是人?会不会有conflict?或者如果两边关系不好里外不是人?
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#64
希望美妈的问题最后能得到妥善的解决不知道如何加入MCST,那些人都没有娃不用替娃考虑的吗?不知道如何加入MCST,那些人都没有娃不用替娃考虑的吗?
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#65
呵呵。没想到你会贴出来。早报完全没告知我。朋友看到你的贴子才知道的
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#66
呃我不是说美女已经加入了哈就是好奇有没有这种情况就是好奇有没有这种情况
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#67
自从收到警告信应该没有和平解决的可能性了。当他們带着保安进来咆哮的那一刻开始,就知道这梁子是结下了。本还希望他们能睁只眼闭只眼,看样子也不可能了。还好我的装隐形窗花的那小哥很够意思,居然发了BCA的2015 的circular给我。让我看到了点曙光,也不惧怕跟他们硬碰硬了。其中两条跟大家分享
Paragraph 5(3) of the prescribed by-laws under the Second Schedule to the Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations 2005 states that a subsidiary proprietor (SP) or occupier of a lot shall not be prevented from installing any structure or device to prevent harm to children (an extract is appended in the Annex). Such structures/devices include safety grilles at windows and balconies.
5 There may be situations where the MC has not set design guidelines for safety grilles, or is unable to pass the design guidelines by-law through a general meeting. In such situations, the MC will have to decide on the approval of the installation of such structure/devices on a case-by-case basis. If there are no prevailing design guidelines, the MC should consider the SP's proposed design to see if it can be adopted by all other SPs wanting to install safety grilles to ensure uniformity in appearance with the rest of the building in the development.
应该没有和平解决的可能性了。当他們带着保安进来咆哮的那一刻开始,就知道这梁子是结下了。本还希望他们能睁只眼闭只眼,看样子也不可能了。还好我的装隐形窗花的那小哥很够意思,居然发了BCA的2015 的circular给我。让我看到了点曙光,也不惧怕跟他们硬碰硬了。其中两条跟大家分享
Paragraph 5(3) of the prescribed by-laws under the Second Schedule to the Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations 2005 states that a subsidiary proprietor (SP) or occupier of a lot shall not be prevented from installing any structure or device to prevent harm to children (an extract is appended in the Annex). Such structures/devices include safety grilles at windows and balconies.
5 There may be situations where the MC has not set design guidelines for safety grilles, or is unable to pass the design guidelines by-law through a general meeting. In such situations, the MC will have to decide on the approval of the installation of such structure/devices on a case-by-case basis. If there are no prevailing design guidelines, the MC should consider the SP's proposed design to see if it can be adopted by all other SPs wanting to install safety grilles to ensure uniformity in appearance with the rest of the building in the development. -
#68
可以的,我们NC有一个member就是MCST的成员如你所料的,是挺尴尬的,两面不是人。还好我们的NC主席比较会做人,尽量不去得罪MCST,但是也不会让MCST骑在NC的头上。如你所料的,是挺尴尬的,两面不是人。还好我们的NC主席比较会做人,尽量不去得罪MCST,但是也不会让MCST骑在NC的头上。
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DengWei 楼主#69
没问题的,我也没料到是你,也没有人知道投报的是不是真实姓名,所以不用担心隐私。
早报站长也是在上面回复你了,你们可以要求物业统一规格特别批准你们的情况,你们那公寓有whatapps群吗?记得要出席大会,积极争取个人利益,这些人有些过分了,没有基本的道德感和同情心也没有人知道投报的是不是真实姓名,所以不用担心隐私。
早报站长也是在上面回复你了,你们可以要求物业统一规格特别批准你们的情况,你们那公寓有whatapps群吗?记得要出席大会,积极争取个人利益,这些人有些过分了,没有基本的道德感和同情心 -
#70
帮楼主搜了一下之前的casehttp://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/family-wins-case-install-grille-condo-balcony-childs-safety
Family wins case to install grille in condo balcony for child's safety
Board has ruled in favour of a family who were twice refused permission to install a grille in the balcony of their 13th-level condominium unit after seeing their four-year-old daughter try to climb over it.
It held that the management corporation of 7 One North Residences (ONR) in Buona Vista was wrong in refusing permission to a family to install grilles above the glass wall of their 13th-level balcony.
In judgment grounds of the test case, released this week, it said: "The children's safety must be paramount, even if the grilles may affect the appearance of the building or if they constitute an alteration on common property and therefore are prohibited under ONR's by-laws."
Dr Sujit Singh Gill's application was turned down twice by the ONR's management corporation (MC), which claimed it would affect the building's unique and uniform appearance.
The MC suggested instead that grilles be placed at the edge of the living room to prevent child access to the balcony. Dr Singh applied to the board last July to overrule the MC.
At issue was the rationality of the MC's decision and whether it could bar the installation based on the relevant building regulations. The MC's lawyers, Mr Subramaniam Pillai and Ms Venetia Tan, argued that the grilles did not keep up the building's appearance as provided under ONR's by-laws and would obstruct maintenance of the glass wall, among other things.
Lawyers Toh Kok Seng and Daniel Chen for Dr Singh countered that the relevant ONR by-laws took effect only last July and Dr Singh could not have been aware of them as he had bought the unit in 2010. They argued that the ONR by-laws had to be consistent with the prescribed 2005 Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations, which allow owners to install safety structures or devices to prevent harm to children - even if they affect the building's appearance under certain circumstances.
The board comprising Mr Alfonso Ang, Mr Chua Koon Hoe and Mr Lim Gnee Kiang found that the MC had been "unreasonably difficult" with Dr Singh's request and had ignored the concerns for children's safety, as provided for under the 2005 regulations. It added that the grilles would have minimal impact on the building's appearance.
The board made clear that children's safety must be the overriding concern and the MC should support other such applications.
It called for the MC to provide guidelines for the installation of such safety devices to ensure they keep to the rest of the appearances of the building.
"Having grilles is not an attempt to abdicate parental responsibility. Instead, it serves as a safety precaution from leaning or climbing over the balcony glass wall. After all, it only takes a split second for the child to climb and fall over the glass, especially since it is only waist-high and easy to climb over," said the board.
Law firm Lee & Lee said on its case update website that "this is the first case in which the prescribed by-law of the Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations 2005 has been considered in depth and will undoubtedly be of consequence to most, if not all, management corporations in Singapore".
http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/family-wins-case-install-grille-condo-balcony-childs-safety
Family wins case to install grille in condo balcony for child's safety
Board has ruled in favour of a family who were twice refused permission to install a grille in the balcony of their 13th-level condominium unit after seeing their four-year-old daughter try to climb over it.
It held that the management corporation of 7 One North Residences (ONR) in Buona Vista was wrong in refusing permission to a family to install grilles above the glass wall of their 13th-level balcony.
In judgment grounds of the test case, released this week, it said: "The children's safety must be paramount, even if the grilles may affect the appearance of the building or if they constitute an alteration on common property and therefore are prohibited under ONR's by-laws."
Dr Sujit Singh Gill's application was turned down twice by the ONR's management corporation (MC), which claimed it would affect the building's unique and uniform appearance.
The MC suggested instead that grilles be placed at the edge of the living room to prevent child access to the balcony. Dr Singh applied to the board last July to overrule the MC.
At issue was the rationality of the MC's decision and whether it could bar the installation based on the relevant building regulations. The MC's lawyers, Mr Subramaniam Pillai and Ms Venetia Tan, argued that the grilles did not keep up the building's appearance as provided under ONR's by-laws and would obstruct maintenance of the glass wall, among other things.
Lawyers Toh Kok Seng and Daniel Chen for Dr Singh countered that the relevant ONR by-laws took effect only last July and Dr Singh could not have been aware of them as he had bought the unit in 2010. They argued that the ONR by-laws had to be consistent with the prescribed 2005 Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations, which allow owners to install safety structures or devices to prevent harm to children - even if they affect the building's appearance under certain circumstances.
The board comprising Mr Alfonso Ang, Mr Chua Koon Hoe and Mr Lim Gnee Kiang found that the MC had been "unreasonably difficult" with Dr Singh's request and had ignored the concerns for children's safety, as provided for under the 2005 regulations. It added that the grilles would have minimal impact on the building's appearance.
The board made clear that children's safety must be the overriding concern and the MC should support other such applications.
It called for the MC to provide guidelines for the installation of such safety devices to ensure they keep to the rest of the appearances of the building.
"Having grilles is not an attempt to abdicate parental responsibility. Instead, it serves as a safety precaution from leaning or climbing over the balcony glass wall. After all, it only takes a split second for the child to climb and fall over the glass, especially since it is only waist-high and easy to climb over," said the board.
Law firm Lee & Lee said on its case update website that "this is the first case in which the prescribed by-law of the Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations 2005 has been considered in depth and will undoubtedly be of consequence to most, if not all, management corporations in Singapore".
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#71
我们nc的头把所有mc的人都得罪光了他收了好多proxy form把所有mc提的proposal都shoot down了
哈哈哈,这情商想当grassroot leader也是堪忧啊他收了好多proxy form把所有mc提的proposal都shoot down了
哈哈哈,这情商想当grassroot leader也是堪忧啊 -
#72
谢谢各位的支持。过程很虐心,但看到很多在言论上支持,真的有感受到精神上的力量。跟MCST的人斗费时费力费神。我刚搬进这间公寓不过2个多月,也不知道有没有群。也没想过要要推翻这届MCST, 只发现这届的 MCST的成员一半以上都住一楼。(我有认真研读过前屋主留下来的AGM minutes哦)也许这就是他们认为安装隐形窗花的必要性并不大吧。估计他们也没料到我们这户这么难搞定,居然还敢强行安装。呵呵。真的有感受到精神上的力量。跟MCST的人斗费时费力费神。我刚搬进这间公寓不过2个多月,也不知道有没有群。也没想过要要推翻这届MCST, 只发现这届的 MCST的成员一半以上都住一楼。(我有认真研读过前屋主留下来的AGM minutes哦)也许这就是他们认为安装隐形窗花的必要性并不大吧。估计他们也没料到我们这户这么难搞定,居然还敢强行安装。呵呵。
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#73
你写信给bca吧我记得我们刚top的时候群里也有人讨论过这个问题的,记得邻居说bca允许装的,你去bca complain.
这个一天不装上,一天都不能安心上班我记得我们刚top的时候群里也有人讨论过这个问题的,记得邻居说bca允许装的,你去bca complain.
这个一天不装上,一天都不能安心上班 -
#74
这官司得打多久啊?
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#75
一年多了还没完不过MCST也没有强行去拆违章的窗户,因为人家根本不让进屋嘛,MC的人也无可奈何。不过MCST也没有强行去拆违章的窗户,因为人家根本不让进屋嘛,MC的人也无可奈何。
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#76
可以先找找以前同样被拒绝的家庭吗其他有小孩的家庭,快有小孩的家庭都可以试试问问看,至少多些人支持其他有小孩的家庭,快有小孩的家庭都可以试试问问看,至少多些人支持
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#77
同情1.以前住一楼,没有安装这个的问题,可是阳台没有封顶,楼上什么东西都可能丢下来,甚至有整扇窗户掉下来的(不是我家,另一个一楼住户),所有一楼的住户联合提出从安全考虑要物业同意一楼住户自费统一封自家的阳台顶部,可是回复就是不行,每年业主大会也达不到70%投票率。(几百户才十几户一楼,大部分都事不关己 高高挂起)哎!
2. 换新房子吸取经验,只要是bca允许的,才不管你外观不外观,先斩后奏。加上邻居们自己安装不符合的也很多,收到警告信要拆除,就和他们扯皮,别人那么多都安了,凭什么我们不可以,bca都允许了,为什么不能安。来来回回几次,物业manager都换了几个了,好像就不了了之了。住了2年了没人再来烦了。1.以前住一楼,没有安装这个的问题,可是阳台没有封顶,楼上什么东西都可能丢下来,甚至有整扇窗户掉下来的(不是我家,另一个一楼住户),所有一楼的住户联合提出从安全考虑要物业同意一楼住户自费统一封自家的阳台顶部,可是回复就是不行,每年业主大会也达不到70%投票率。(几百户才十几户一楼,大部分都事不关己 高高挂起)哎!
2. 换新房子吸取经验,只要是bca允许的,才不管你外观不外观,先斩后奏。加上邻居们自己安装不符合的也很多,收到警告信要拆除,就和他们扯皮,别人那么多都安了,凭什么我们不可以,bca都允许了,为什么不能安。来来回回几次,物业manager都换了几个了,好像就不了了之了。住了2年了没人再来烦了。 -
#78
找过议员了,议员说这件事她无法干涉,因为是私人产业。可以尽量帮忙让双方坐下来谈,但如果对方拒绝,她也没办法。可以尽量帮忙让双方坐下来谈,但如果对方拒绝,她也没办法。
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#79
应该,可能,大概是天朝移民的干活。的干活。
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#80
小沈这么跟你说的吗是小沈说的吗?按照常理,确实是属于私人纠纷,不像是开发商和居民的矛盾。
不过你可以和MCST坐下来调解,议员说的没错,她可以安排调解,而MCST可以拒绝调解,最终的途径就是走法律途径。我建议你去找NC和议员,安排调解,走这个程序,虽然MCST可以拒绝调解,但是你走这个程序,也是你的姿态,说明你已经主动来解决问题,调解过程中,你自己不要怯场,坚定你的信念,要突出这是BCA的规定,并非是你个人的想法,而同时需要得到NC和议员的支持(他们应该不会插手细节的,就像清官难断家务事,如何取得支持,需要些沟通技巧,就像义顺那件事一样,部长主动出来讲政府支持打官司)。其实说白了,给他们一些压力,他们包括MCST,NC,议员等等各个资源,最好的结果,当然大家都妥协。当然,MCST可以拒绝参加任何一切的调解,不过MCST不像有地的屋主,只要自己有钱,啥都不怕,法庭见。MCST的所有经费来自业主,他们有来自业主是否同意的压力。是小沈说的吗?按照常理,确实是属于私人纠纷,不像是开发商和居民的矛盾。
不过你可以和MCST坐下来调解,议员说的没错,她可以安排调解,而MCST可以拒绝调解,最终的途径就是走法律途径。我建议你去找NC和议员,安排调解,走这个程序,虽然MCST可以拒绝调解,但是你走这个程序,也是你的姿态,说明你已经主动来解决问题,调解过程中,你自己不要怯场,坚定你的信念,要突出这是BCA的规定,并非是你个人的想法,而同时需要得到NC和议员的支持(他们应该不会插手细节的,就像清官难断家务事,如何取得支持,需要些沟通技巧,就像义顺那件事一样,部长主动出来讲政府支持打官司)。其实说白了,给他们一些压力,他们包括MCST,NC,议员等等各个资源,最好的结果,当然大家都妥协。当然,MCST可以拒绝参加任何一切的调解,不过MCST不像有地的屋主,只要自己有钱,啥都不怕,法庭见。MCST的所有经费来自业主,他们有来自业主是否同意的压力。 -
#81
借贴问这个隐形窗花是不是大部分公寓都允许装所以要买公寓之前问清楚是吗?有小孩却不能装隐形窗花确实无法接受。以前买的公寓阳台似乎确实是没有隐形窗花,不过以前完全没有想过这个问题。后来买的组屋自动就有很难看的栅栏了,绝对安全,所以也没有想过这个问题。所以要买公寓之前问清楚是吗?有小孩却不能装隐形窗花确实无法接受。以前买的公寓阳台似乎确实是没有隐形窗花,不过以前完全没有想过这个问题。后来买的组屋自动就有很难看的栅栏了,绝对安全,所以也没有想过这个问题。
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#82
系统提示:该帖标题已被删除系统提示:该帖正文已被删除系统提示:该帖正文已被删除
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#83
这广告,这宣传不错不错
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#84
然后有的亲戚或朋友,刚好是律师呵呵呵呵
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#85
今天下午去management office,那个manager 告知我,不能继续装,和之前理由一样,我就不再重复,反正就是不愿意开绿灯,完全不再听任何理由,要求安排和council members 谈话,就是一副没法安排的态度,法律法规也不愿意阅读。就是一副我就这决定,你能拿我怎样的态度。甚至有人开着SUV进来找我,一听unit number就先被带去management office询问,是不是装修工人,这种眼力,那找我的人,虽然不是西装笔挺,但怎么也不像装修工人吧,再说,居然SUV和货车都分不清楚,太搞笑了。n有许多网友建议我使用法律武器,我也考虑过了,询问过律师了,基本上花费至少是5000-20000,而且费时费力,整个诉讼过程可能长达好几年,到时候我孩子说不定都大了,这官司能为我解决怎样的实际问题呢?n我选择另外一种方式是,我违规装上(但现在根据BCA的法规,我并没有违规),MCST发律师信给我,我应诉,上法庭,耗个几年,我孩子也大了,装不装也无所谓了,到时候真判我败诉,我就拆了呗。更何况我还不一定输呢。但我的问题其实得到了实际的解决,不是吗?n这两种情况,都是得罪MCST的人,现在他们反正也跟我们撕破脸皮了,我何必要顾及他们的脸面,我就是顶住被邻居看热闹的压力,如果邻居有同情心,说不定事情还有转机呢?n我也诉诸于英文媒体了,向记者阐述了故事的全部版本,他们也在公寓进行了采访,但记者的着笔点,我也不知道,他们到底站在哪一边,无论如何,我算是把一口怨气发泄了。很可能会激怒council member,他们可能马上采取更激烈的行动,但我相信这地方还是讲法律的吧。不能继续装,和之前理由一样,我就不再重复,反正就是不愿意开绿灯,完全不再听任何理由,要求安排和council members 谈话,就是一副没法安排的态度,法律法规也不愿意阅读。就是一副我就这决定,你能拿我怎样的态度。甚至有人开着SUV进来找我,一听unit number就先被带去management office询问,是不是装修工人,这种眼力,那找我的人,虽然不是西装笔挺,但怎么也不像装修工人吧,再说,居然SUV和货车都分不清楚,太搞笑了。n有许多网友建议我使用法律武器,我也考虑过了,询问过律师了,基本上花费至少是5000-20000,而且费时费力,整个诉讼过程可能长达好几年,到时候我孩子说不定都大了,这官司能为我解决怎样的实际问题呢?n我选择另外一种方式是,我违规装上(但现在根据BCA的法规,我并没有违规),MCST发律师信给我,我应诉,上法庭,耗个几年,我孩子也大了,装不装也无所谓了,到时候真判我败诉,我就拆了呗。更何况我还不一定输呢。但我的问题其实得到了实际的解决,不是吗?n这两种情况,都是得罪MCST的人,现在他们反正也跟我们撕破脸皮了,我何必要顾及他们的脸面,我就是顶住被邻居看热闹的压力,如果邻居有同情心,说不定事情还有转机呢?n我也诉诸于英文媒体了,向记者阐述了故事的全部版本,他们也在公寓进行了采访,但记者的着笔点,我也不知道,他们到底站在哪一边,无论如何,我算是把一口怨气发泄了。很可能会激怒council member,他们可能马上采取更激烈的行动,但我相信这地方还是讲法律的吧。
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#86
他们还能采取什么激烈的手段啊!无论他们采取那种手段,我就是不拆,不允许他们进我家门,他们又能怎么样?无论他们采取那种手段,我就是不拆,不允许他们进我家门,他们又能怎么样?
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#87
委员会的成员总共有7位,其中6位是住一楼的,并且我这样投诉他们,估计也激怒他们了,他们很可能也会像我一样逼上梁山,然后共同决定用MCST的基金来上法庭告我,想想里面好像还有我的management fee呢,这不是用我自己的钱告我自己嘛?呵呵其中6位是住一楼的,并且我这样投诉他们,估计也激怒他们了,他们很可能也会像我一样逼上梁山,然后共同决定用MCST的基金来上法庭告我,想想里面好像还有我的management fee呢,这不是用我自己的钱告我自己嘛?呵呵
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#88
我现在就是想这么做,但问题没装完啊,才装一半。得要工具,还得继续钻墙。
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#89
就这样做对待没有同理心的人不必废话。阳台不装安全栏哪个家长能放心。之前报纸上也有小孩掉下去的意外,这些案例可以拿到法庭上说吧对待没有同理心的人不必废话。阳台不装安全栏哪个家长能放心。之前报纸上也有小孩掉下去的意外,这些案例可以拿到法庭上说吧
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#90
走后门进不要驾车,或者你自己驾车的话,把工具先带回家不要驾车,或者你自己驾车的话,把工具先带回家
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#91
强烈支持楼主!可以去和contrator学怎么装自己动手吗?同时问清楚钻[…]墙这些要申请什么permit,不要让他们找到借口。觉得打官司你能赢。在公众媒体上你也是赢的,他们这样只是罔顾幼儿安全的典型。不知道他们愿意冒这个险。他们有优势的地方在于你用自己的钱,他们用MCST的钱,你暂时吃亏。多参加MCST的meeting。这个MCST用公款打官司需要集体通过吗?可以查查管理条例。墙这些要申请什么permit,不要让他们找到借口。觉得打官司你能赢。在公众媒体上你也是赢的,他们这样只是罔顾幼儿安全的典型。不知道他们愿意冒这个险。他们有优势的地方在于你用自己的钱,他们用MCST的钱,你暂时吃亏。多参加MCST的meeting。这个MCST用公款打官司需要集体通过吗?可以查查管理条例。
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#92
这算不算是民主的暴政以民主的名义,为了他们那点小利益,而致他人生命安全于不顾。
以民主的名义,为了他们那点小利益,而致他人生命安全于不顾。 -
#93
后门在哪里那里有后门?在哪儿那里有后门?在哪儿
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#94
可以问一下为什么不可以装吗?我看很多公寓阳台装shutter啊为什么不可以装吗?我看很多公寓阳台装shutter啊
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#95
突然发现,这个condo好便宜?1300psf for a 2 bedder unit @ 1.2mil only?1300psf for a 2 bedder unit @ 1.2mil only?
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DengWei 楼主#96
MCST不批准,URA没问题的。看来买房前还要再多问一个这个问题。看来买房前还要再多问一个这个问题。
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DengWei 楼主#97
嗯,尺价1200上下,在这个行情下,是很有吸引力的。
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#98
管理层好变态我记得以前听中介说阳台这种通常是一个人装,然后大家就都装。最后就没人管不了了之了。
多谢楼主分享,买房前又多了一个需要考虑的东西。我记得以前听中介说阳台这种通常是一个人装,然后大家就都装。最后就没人管不了了之了。
多谢楼主分享,买房前又多了一个需要考虑的东西。 -
#99
是的盯这个房子盯了很久了,本版其他买这个房子的没有装invisible grill吗?我不明白不能装invisible grill怎么忍?封住去阳台的门?盯这个房子盯了很久了,本版其他买这个房子的没有装invisible grill吗?我不明白不能装invisible grill怎么忍?封住去阳台的门?
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#100
顺便解释一下自从在狮城帮学习了GRC的知识以后,我已经不一定买芝麻街了,最近一直在看trilinq,可是突然发现自从我开始看trilinq以后它就卖的很快。难道真的是狮城帮效应?自从在狮城帮学习了GRC的知识以后,我已经不一定买芝麻街了,最近一直在看trilinq,可是突然发现自从我开始看trilinq以后它就卖的很快。难道真的是狮城帮效应?