大家不要用PRC作为名词来指代中国大陆人,新加坡人用此词有贬义
这里很热 • • 63405 次浏览我看到另外一个关于荷兰村大便妇女的帖子,里面很多狮城帮朋友在回复的时候,跟新加坡本地人学,用PRC来指代大陆人,我觉得有点刺眼。所以就回了一个长贴子,引证说明,新加坡人独创这个词语所写指代中国大陆人,是有贬义的。大家不要用来指代自己了。(注意了,我不是说新加坡人独创PRC这个简称本身,我是说他们把PRC 的原意(中华人民共和国)转换成了中国大陆人,这是他们的独创)。
现在觉得既然花了功夫贴那个长贴子,而且贴子本身的意义重大,所以,决定另开出来,帮助大家提高意识,以后不要用PRC(作为大陆人的意思)来指代自己或者同胞。
新加坡人自创用PRC贬义地指代中国人。我们自己就不要犯傻也自称是PRCs! (这就好比是那些台湾、香港人恶毒地称呼我们是zhina ren,然后我们自己也用zhina ren来指代自己,却不知道其中的贬意,太可笑了)。
应该说自己是 Chinese citizen, Chinese national 或者是来自 China。这两个词都是中立词语。
英文里面把词语缩小(也不仅仅是字母数目缩小,也可以是在读音感受上缩小),很多情况下就是有贬义的。比如说,日本人在英语里中立的词是 Japanese, 那贬义的就是Japs;共产主义者英语里中立的词语是Communist,贬义的就是 Commie;穆斯林教徒英语里中立的词语是Muslim, 贬义的就是 Muzzie; 那还有Chinese(中国人)- Chink(中国佬)等等。当然也有不是这样的,比如说,澳大利亚人(白人)自己称自己是 Aussie(这个有亲昵的意思,想想看,亲昵和鄙视有一个共同点,就是不当真)。
我2011年在海峡时报上看到一篇读者来信 (Racism a thing of the past? Think again '种族歧视是昨日黄花吗?非也'),很明确指出,新加坡人用PRC作为名词指代中国大陆人的时候,就是带有嘲讽口吻(derisively)的。我看到那个信后,就收藏起来。现在贴在最下面,供大家参考(注意看红色部分)。文章在最下面,现在把关键的句子复制在这里: It (racism) involves all of us, and it is present whenever we derisively use the
term 'PRCs'; whenever we treat a Caucasian with more respect or accord
him more attention than we would an Asian; or whenever we dismissively
refer to any group of dark-skinned men as 'Banglas' regardless of their
ethnic origins.
永远不要再用PRC来指代自己了(中国人)。当然PRC用来指代中华人民共和国,是中立词语,是可以的。或者用作形容词比如PRC Citizen是可以的。但是作为名词,直接指代中国人,是绝对有贬义的。也就是说,可以讲 He is a PRC Citizen(就是这样,在欧美国家他们还是不会这么说,他们只会说He is a Chinese citizen) 但是绝对不可以接受 He is a PRC/They are PRCs。大家可能觉得奇怪为什么同一个词语,形容词和名词用法会有贬褒之分。是有的,解释如下:
英文里面,形容词和名词在一些情况下表达的微妙意思是不一样的。John is gay/John is a gay man 和 John is a gay. 表面上是一个意思,可是英文是母语的人知道,后者有贬义。同样,说一个人是黑人,你说 He is black/He is a black man,是中立描述,但是如果你说 He is a black, 别人的眉毛就会扬起来。这不是我在胡诌的,大家可以自己搜索,也可以参考这个帖子的回复:http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1289509
新加坡人不但独创了这个PRC的用法,而且还把国际英文里面非常有贬义的Chinaman/China woman之类的词语用来指代中国人。我08年的时候看到海峡时报上一个报道就是用China Woman来指代来自中国的妇女,当时感到很生气,就写了封信给海峡时报,当然他们没有发,现在我也把自己的信贴在下面:
==========================
(此文是我写的)
Dear Editor,
I refer to the article titled "Drinking binge killed China woman",
written by journalist Elena Chong and published in the Courts and Crime
section of the Straits Times on March 25, 2008.
Both the title and the report itself bear the term "China woman",
apparently to designate a female citizen from China. I am appalled by
the use of this highly offensive term in Straits Times and am writing to
request that an apology be made on the inappropriate use of language.
"China woman" is apparently a term derived from its counterpart
"Chinaman", which is regarded as an offensive term in English to refer
to a male person from China. It carries racist connotations. For
instance, the online Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the term
"Chinaman" as "often offensive: a native of China". Other authoritative
dictionaries likewise also point out the pejorative connotations of this
term.
The parallel usage for females, "China woman" naturally also acquires
the racist connotations attached to the original term. As a national and
international publication, Straits Times should not endorse or condone
the use of racist language that targets persons from a particular
background.
In light of the above facts, I am writing to seek an apology from
Straits Times on behalf of all people who were offended by the use of
this term in your newspaper.
Sincerely
这里很热
==============================
(此信是新加坡读者写的,发表于海峡时报上)
Racism a thing of the past? Think again
ST Forum
08 June 2011
Straits Times
I BEG to differ from the views put forth by Professor Lee Wei Ling in her letter last Saturday ('Singaporeans are mostly not racist').
Prof Lee posits that racism is a phenomenon limited by and large to the elderly and the less educated, and cites the substantial Indian population in her working environment and in her social circle as evidence of that claim. Yes, this does illustrate Singapore's racial diversity, but it tells us nothing about the supposed absence of racism.
The writer seems to be suggesting that most Singaporeans are 'colour-blind', which is to say that we disregard racial characteristics when taking a person into account.It seems apparent to me, however, that this is far from the truth.
I believe the conclusion that Singaporeans are mostly a colour-blind people is an assumption that members of the dominant racial group here, such as Prof Lee and myself, are privileged with, since we do not bear the brunt of racial discrimination and prejudice.
Racism is not just about Indians and the Chinese from the People's Republic of China, and it is not just about migrant workers, though it plays out most explicitly in the majority's relations with the minorities.
It involves all of us, and it is present whenever we derisively use the term 'PRCs'; whenever we treat a Caucasian with more respect or accord him more attention than we would an Asian; or whenever we dismissively refer to any group of dark-skinned men as 'Banglas' regardless of their ethnic origins.
It is present in our media, in our television commercials, advertisements for new condominiums and fashion spreads that make out our country to be full of successful, happy and wholesome Chinese, pan-Asian and Caucasian professionals and families.
Prof Lee tries to distinguish between racism and xenophobia. But where do we draw the line between wariness of foreigners and those of a different race and culture from us? And why doesn't our xenophobia seem to extend to the lighter-skinned expatriates?
Singapore is for the most part a racially harmonious melting pot, and that is something to be happy about. But don't let the privileged majority fall into the easy trap of believing that racism is a thing of the past, or being complacent with racial diversity and forgetting the pursuit of social justice.
Tan Yee Hui(Miss)
==============================
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#102
问了本地同事他说prc没有贬义。
贬义的那个他觉得说不出口……
大概就是上面提到的某个。
福建话讲起来很过分的那种?他说prc没有贬义。
贬义的那个他觉得说不出口……
大概就是上面提到的某个。
福建话讲起来很过分的那种? -
#103
支那人这个词源于甲午战争之后。日本如日中天,中国陷于泥潭。
支那人这词在当时当然是歧视。中国人这个词也是歧视。所以为什么有吉鸿昌将军的“I am a Chinese!(我是一个中国人!)。
但这楼里很多人是觉得PRC现在不是歧视啊。说"Are you PRC?"的人可能语法不好,或是敌意甚浓。我是觉得很刺耳,因为语法不对,不是English。楼主英文如此好,应该在写给报纸的信里从语言角度晓以大义,因为这样用英文法,别人不会承认你是English-speaking country.
歧视最好的例子:
支那人这词在当时当然是歧视。中国人这个词也是歧视。所以为什么有吉鸿昌将军的“I am a Chinese!(我是一个中国人!)。
但这楼里很多人是觉得PRC现在不是歧视啊。说"Are you PRC?"的人可能语法不好,或是敌意甚浓。我是觉得很刺耳,因为语法不对,不是English。楼主英文如此好,应该在写给报纸的信里从语言角度晓以大义,因为这样用英文法,别人不会承认你是English-speaking country.
歧视最好的例子:
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#104
妖版都笑了,我跟着赞一下楼上上的笑话好冷。本来想赞一下,但想想又怕话音刚[…]落,有人说楼上上是不是讽刺我们是暴发户啊,我傻了吧。所以不敢赞。妖版都赞了,那就安全了。落,有人说楼上上是不是讽刺我们是暴发户啊,我傻了吧。所以不敢赞。妖版都赞了,那就安全了。
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#105
额,纠正一下支那一词是梵语中国一词的音译。从隋唐开始就是中国的代称了。
最常见的就是玄奘法师在西行途中,被外国人成为支那僧。
这个词变为贬义是从甲午战争之后。支那一词是梵语中国一词的音译。从隋唐开始就是中国的代称了。
最常见的就是玄奘法师在西行途中,被外国人成为支那僧。
这个词变为贬义是从甲午战争之后。 -
#106
看不懂你说什么?什么暴发户?我只是说把pcr看成prc很萌而已啊我只是说把pcr看成prc很萌而已啊
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这里很热 楼主#107
也谈一下支那这个词,Shina (日语的拼音); Cheena (新加坡的说法)
上面有位朋友谈论Chinaman和支那。其实我自己觉得这两个词语,虽然都是不可争辩的贬义词,但是不太一样。原因很简单,Chinaman是讲英语的人发明的,尽管和所有歧视用语一样,开始都是中立说法,后来演变出来的歧视意思,反映了是这些欧美人士的傲慢、偏见和优越感。实际上来讲,Wikipedia指出,Chinaman有时候也被随便用在其它东亚人,或者被认为是东亚血统的人身上。
' Chinaman is a contentious English language term that denotes a Chinese man or person, or as a Chinese national, or, in some cases, an indiscriminate term for a person native to geographical East Asia or of perceived East Asian race'。
也就是说,日本人也有可能被称呼为Chinaman。实际上来讲,国外的那些侮辱东亚人的说法Chink (Chinese), Japs (Japanese), Gook (Korean) 在有的时候就是随意替换的,反映了白人对东亚人种的整体偏见。
所以,Chinaman,其实我不知道如何翻译成中文,但是应该不会是支那人。
再来谈支那这个词语,已经有人谈论了它的中立源头和被歧视化的背景,就不再去详述。Wikipedia把这个词语的欧化写法拼成Shina (Sina)。
我这里想说的是,新加坡也有个说法,叫Cheena, 但是这个词语好像是来自马来语,但其形成中是否受到了日语的影响,是不是和支那有一样的侮辱意味,很难说。看看这个词在'新加坡英语词典'的定义:
CHEENA
A pejorative term used to describe a 'mainlander', a Chinese national, a minor 'foreign talent' with the implied attributes of opportunism, rudeness and boorishness. Possibly originally derived from Peranakan, it is now popularly used to label a new generation of Chinese emigrants who have arrived in Singapore to seek their fortunes.
http://www.talkingcock.com/html/lexec.php?op=LexLink&lexicon=lexicon&keyword=CHEENA
翻译:
Cheena
一个贬意词语用来描述大陆人,中国人,无足轻重的‘外国人才’;(这些人的)特征是机会主义,粗鲁,和不文明。源头可能是土生华人的用语,此词现在广泛用来标签来新加坡寻富的中国新一代移民。
2001年的时候,海峡时报发了一篇文章,内容记不得了,应该是赞扬中国的,然后一个新加坡读者留了个评论,用cheena来贬义形容在新加坡工作的中国人士。引起了当时总理吴作栋的注意,以至于,他在2001年国庆群众大会演讲时提起这个事情。官方的演讲稿从新加坡政府网站上怎么也找不到,但是在一个外部网站有(好像是国内的英语学习网站),现把他演讲中的那部分贴出来(下面有中文翻译):
http://www.enread.com/speech/9146.html
I was, however, more than a little sad to read the response of a young reader, probably western-educated and had never been to China. He revealed that he had drafted his response with inputs from a few others like himself, all 20-somethings. He wrote:
"We do not feel any affinity to the Chinese people ... The cheena people are sucking away all the foreign investments and along with them, our jobs ... We really cannot imagine a world with the cheena people in charge.
The cheena people working in Singapore are really such a crude lot."
He ended sarcastically by asking Richard Lim to consider migrating to China.
This young man is unable to see beyond his nose. He needs to grow up, and quickly too. Perhaps he does not know that Chinese are called "Orang Cina" in Malay. If we are not Cina, what are we? "Ang Moh"?
中文翻译 (来自于: http://www.liuxueshequ.com/thread-18470-1-1.html)
‘但是,我却在阅读一位年轻读者的反应时,感到悲哀。他应该是接受西方教育并且从来没有去过中国。他说,他的信代表了一些和他一样年纪,20来岁人的意见。 他写道:“我们对中国人没有任何亲切感……这些‘支那’人正把所有的外来投资,连同我们的工作,一起吸走了……我们真的不能想像一个由‘支那’人主导的世 界。那些在新加坡工作的‘支那’人真是一群粗野的家伙。”
他在文章结束时挖苦林耀辉,叫他考虑移居到中国去。
这个年轻人目光如豆。他需要长大,越快越好。或许他并不知道在马来话中,中国人叫“Orang Cina”(支那人)。如果我们不是支那,那我们是什么?“红毛”吗?新加坡媒体当时就是把cheena翻译成了支那人(如上),但是因为这个词语在新加坡的用法好像是与马来语有关,所以不知道和支那人是不是完全对等。但是毋庸置疑的是,那个读者这样用的时候,就是有强烈贬义的。
好了,现在我们知道的新加坡对我们的用语有PRC, Ah Tiong, Cheena, China people/Chinaman/China woman/Foreign Trash
上面有位朋友谈论Chinaman和支那。其实我自己觉得这两个词语,虽然都是不可争辩的贬义词,但是不太一样。原因很简单,Chinaman是讲英语的人发明的,尽管和所有歧视用语一样,开始都是中立说法,后来演变出来的歧视意思,反映了是这些欧美人士的傲慢、偏见和优越感。实际上来讲,Wikipedia指出,Chinaman有时候也被随便用在其它东亚人,或者被认为是东亚血统的人身上。
' Chinaman is a contentious English language term that denotes a Chinese man or person, or as a Chinese national, or, in some cases, an indiscriminate term for a person native to geographical East Asia or of perceived East Asian race'。
也就是说,日本人也有可能被称呼为Chinaman。实际上来讲,国外的那些侮辱东亚人的说法Chink (Chinese), Japs (Japanese), Gook (Korean) 在有的时候就是随意替换的,反映了白人对东亚人种的整体偏见。
所以,Chinaman,其实我不知道如何翻译成中文,但是应该不会是支那人。
再来谈支那这个词语,已经有人谈论了它的中立源头和被歧视化的背景,就不再去详述。Wikipedia把这个词语的欧化写法拼成Shina (Sina)。
我这里想说的是,新加坡也有个说法,叫Cheena, 但是这个词语好像是来自马来语,但其形成中是否受到了日语的影响,是不是和支那有一样的侮辱意味,很难说。看看这个词在'新加坡英语词典'的定义:
CHEENA
A pejorative term used to describe a 'mainlander', a Chinese national, a minor 'foreign talent' with the implied attributes of opportunism, rudeness and boorishness. Possibly originally derived from Peranakan, it is now popularly used to label a new generation of Chinese emigrants who have arrived in Singapore to seek their fortunes.
http://www.talkingcock.com/html/lexec.php?op=LexLink&lexicon=lexicon&keyword=CHEENA
翻译:
Cheena
一个贬意词语用来描述大陆人,中国人,无足轻重的‘外国人才’;(这些人的)特征是机会主义,粗鲁,和不文明。源头可能是土生华人的用语,此词现在广泛用来标签来新加坡寻富的中国新一代移民。
2001年的时候,海峡时报发了一篇文章,内容记不得了,应该是赞扬中国的,然后一个新加坡读者留了个评论,用cheena来贬义形容在新加坡工作的中国人士。引起了当时总理吴作栋的注意,以至于,他在2001年国庆群众大会演讲时提起这个事情。官方的演讲稿从新加坡政府网站上怎么也找不到,但是在一个外部网站有(好像是国内的英语学习网站),现把他演讲中的那部分贴出来(下面有中文翻译):
http://www.enread.com/speech/9146.html
I was, however, more than a little sad to read the response of a young reader, probably western-educated and had never been to China. He revealed that he had drafted his response with inputs from a few others like himself, all 20-somethings. He wrote:
"We do not feel any affinity to the Chinese people ... The cheena people are sucking away all the foreign investments and along with them, our jobs ... We really cannot imagine a world with the cheena people in charge.
The cheena people working in Singapore are really such a crude lot."
He ended sarcastically by asking Richard Lim to consider migrating to China.
This young man is unable to see beyond his nose. He needs to grow up, and quickly too. Perhaps he does not know that Chinese are called "Orang Cina" in Malay. If we are not Cina, what are we? "Ang Moh"?
中文翻译 (来自于: http://www.liuxueshequ.com/thread-18470-1-1.html)
‘但是,我却在阅读一位年轻读者的反应时,感到悲哀。他应该是接受西方教育并且从来没有去过中国。他说,他的信代表了一些和他一样年纪,20来岁人的意见。 他写道:“我们对中国人没有任何亲切感……这些‘支那’人正把所有的外来投资,连同我们的工作,一起吸走了……我们真的不能想像一个由‘支那’人主导的世 界。那些在新加坡工作的‘支那’人真是一群粗野的家伙。”
他在文章结束时挖苦林耀辉,叫他考虑移居到中国去。
这个年轻人目光如豆。他需要长大,越快越好。或许他并不知道在马来话中,中国人叫“Orang Cina”(支那人)。如果我们不是支那,那我们是什么?“红毛”吗?新加坡媒体当时就是把cheena翻译成了支那人(如上),但是因为这个词语在新加坡的用法好像是与马来语有关,所以不知道和支那人是不是完全对等。但是毋庸置疑的是,那个读者这样用的时候,就是有强烈贬义的。
好了,现在我们知道的新加坡对我们的用语有PRC, Ah Tiong, Cheena, China people/Chinaman/China woman/Foreign Trash
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#108
看多了 还是支持一下 楼住说的也是真的
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#109
版主比我了解得多,指正得对,佩服。
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#110
跟版主想的一样。但是这几天读多了变得疑神疑鬼的,想多了。我错了。
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#111
不可笑,但很幽默。。
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#112
啊3我是这么觉得。中国人早前出去的多数都是屌丝。。。在国内本来就混不下去了,有见了西方世界的近代文明很是自卑,对老外对自己的称呼很敏感。中国传统文化上对名字本身也比较讲究。但现在无所谓了,只要字面本身不含侮辱的意思就见怪不怪了。兼容并包,不拘小节,这才是正儿八经的中国文化。至于新加坡人爱怎么用怎么用,人家有权利是用自己的语言,即使是英语世界也不过只有300万人中的一部分以这种方式讲,改变不了这个英语词的本意。我反而不喜欢China这种词,在法律上或者历史上还有个中国民国,虽然现在台湾自己不这么叫,我觉着自称PRC更有特色更显得牛逼,中国的发展速度是中华人民共和国自己勤劳拼命干出来的,无论好还是坏,与HK SAR Macao SAR, ROC/TW关系不大,最好给他区分开来,等到自己强大了,再去影响别人。
不能因为新加坡人叫一声PRC就不和人家交朋友了,中国人活得要自信一点,也符合国家近年来的形象。中国人在妄自菲薄或者斤斤计较,给国家的名声丢人。。我是这么觉得。中国人早前出去的多数都是屌丝。。。在国内本来就混不下去了,有见了西方世界的近代文明很是自卑,对老外对自己的称呼很敏感。中国传统文化上对名字本身也比较讲究。但现在无所谓了,只要字面本身不含侮辱的意思就见怪不怪了。兼容并包,不拘小节,这才是正儿八经的中国文化。至于新加坡人爱怎么用怎么用,人家有权利是用自己的语言,即使是英语世界也不过只有300万人中的一部分以这种方式讲,改变不了这个英语词的本意。我反而不喜欢China这种词,在法律上或者历史上还有个中国民国,虽然现在台湾自己不这么叫,我觉着自称PRC更有特色更显得牛逼,中国的发展速度是中华人民共和国自己勤劳拼命干出来的,无论好还是坏,与HK SAR Macao SAR, ROC/TW关系不大,最好给他区分开来,等到自己强大了,再去影响别人。
不能因为新加坡人叫一声PRC就不和人家交朋友了,中国人活得要自信一点,也符合国家近年来的形象。中国人在妄自菲薄或者斤斤计较,给国家的名声丢人。。 -
#113
支持lz的观点以前在本地论坛上看到这种说法也感到很气愤。以前在本地论坛上看到这种说法也感到很气愤。
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#114
我第一次听到新加坡人这么叫我我就觉得有很深的贬义!虽然我也很鄙视他们!